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Episode 2 – How Covid has Changed the American Perception of the Healthcare System

Podcast The Rezilir Way

Welcome to The Rezilir Way! In this episode, Jacob Gordon interviews Dr. Craig Tanio about how COVID has changed the American Perception of the healthcare system.

Hosted By:

Show Notes

Dr. Tanio discusses in our second episode how Covid has changed the American perception of the healthcare system. By studying the data that continues to develop as the virus persists, Dr. Tanio explores the data as the virus adversely affects the older and younger populations of  Florida. Dive into the data and how to properly read it, as the virus becomes increasingly more political. How do we navigate the transparency of data? Using his background in global systems, Dr.Tanio goes through the up and down trials of finding the right strategy against Covid. What has it really revealed? Join us as Dr. Tanio discusses Covid’s drastic effect on our healthcare  systems and the steps we can take to protect ourselves.

  • (1:20) Covid’s effect on Florida, data and identifying the spread of Covid, and being vigilant in health protection.
  • (5:00) Covid and younger/older populations, Florida and reporting cases, and the transparency of data.
  • (9:10) Covid and reporting data, the interpretation of medicine and science as a politicized process, and masks as the new normal.
  • (14:00) Craig’s background in global healthcare systems. Florida’s response to Covid, and finding the balance between public good and public health.
  • (17:55) What has gone right and what has gone wrong, the return to a potential lockdown, and finding the right strategy.
  • (20:20) Prevention, keeping our immune systems optimal, and data and vitamin D.
  • (25:35) What can we do to better prepare Americans? Outdoor events vs. indoor events, global data and super spreader events.
  • (30:40) Covid’s effect on conventional and integrative medicine, healthcare’s function and scientific principles, and translating the anxiety of Covid into a healthy lifestyle.


Intro: I look at masks as really being an act of altruism. You’re trying to protect people around you from getting germs that you might have. And while wearing cloth masks is not perfect it is certainly better than nothing.

Jacob Gordon: Hey guys, and welcome to The Rezilir Way with Jacob Gordon. I’m your host, Jacob, and I’m so excited to have you here today. Today is the second episode of The Rezilir Way. We started the show off before as solving problems with Jacob Gordon and that show it can be found on my website, Anyway, I have here today, Dr. Craig Tanio from Rezilir. He is the head clinician here and has over 25 years of building and developing innovative models of healthcare system delivery.

You have a little bit more of his credentials during the show, but I have to say he’s one of the smartest doctors that I’ve worked with, especially in the field of analyzing data. Anyway, today Dr. Tanio and I will be talking about how COVID has changed the American perception of the healthcare system. What it’s really revealed in how healthcare workers react and how the public reacts and so much more. So guys stick around for this entire episode. You’re not going to want to miss this. So without further ado let’s get started. All right thank you Dr. Tanio for being here. I know that this is your show as well, so it’s good that you have some time to get on the show and we can all talk.

Craig Tanio: Thanks, Jacob, looking forward to having a productive discussion.

Jacob Gordon: I want to first talk about what’s going on here, where we are. We’re in Florida, and I know you’re experiencing, you’ve done a lot of research on it. You’ve done a couple of blog posts on this about how COVID is affecting Florida and how people are acting. Do you care to discuss a little bit more about that?

Craig Tanio: Well, I think what’s become clear is that since the beginning of June cases in Florida have started to surge. They were about a thousand residents a day and during this last week, they’ve been as high as 5,000 residents a day so a fivefold increase. Some of that is driven by increased testing. But the vast majority of the cases I think can be explained that COVID is definitely spreading in the population. But there are also some very important things that are happening beneath that type of headline data. It’s become clear in the Florida statistics that the patients who are getting COVID are actually trending significantly younger. So I believe the average age.

Jacob Gordon: What are the numbers now or the age?

Craig Tanio: I think the average age in Broward County is a 30 and that’s been a significant drop. The initial data in Florida, I think the average age was the mid to late fifties and it’s steadily has dropped, so really showing that COVID is spreading in a younger population. The most important data, which I think is relatively good news, is that the death rates have stayed stable. Or if in some cases, when you look at it, depending on the timeframe the death rates are going down and that’s emblematic.

Jacob Gordon: That’s great.

Craig Tanio: Yes, that is very good news. If you look at the entire US and you look at the peak death rate, which I think was about six or eight weeks ago, and you look at the death rate today there’s been at least a drop of 50 to 70%, you know, again, depending on the timeframe, but really significant and I don’t think that’s gotten any kind of attention.

Jacob Gordon: Now is that that’s overall.

Craig Tanio: In Florida there’s been a drop but then overall in the US there’s been a drop. And so we haven’t seen this globally, this type of pattern yet. So in the United States, there’s definitely I don’t think that we ever are in the second wave. We’ve kind of more been at a plateau of cases, but there are definitely some areas that are experiencing surges. So you’re seeing a surge of cases in a number of different areas, but the death rates are going down and so that’s good news. I think there are a number of potential explanations for it.

Jacob Gordon: Share some of that, because I’m curious as to why they’re going down. I mean, I have some theories and I’ve read some stuff online and follow the media as to why that’s happening, but I want your opinion on this.

Craig Tanio: That there could be three specific causes and I don’t think any of them have yet been proven, but number one is that the virus is spreading in a younger population. And with COVID mortality rates are very, very tightly associated with death and so older patients have much a higher risk of dying from COVID than younger people do. There can be as much as a 12 fold difference in mortality rates when you’re over 80 compared to when you’re 50.

Jacob Gordon: It makes total sense how your immune system works a little bit stronger definitely when you’re younger.

Craig Tanio: Absolutely and that I think one of the most important messages that needs to get out is that people need to take care of their health and have a healthy immune system. That’s kind of the best prevention that we can do for COVID in addition to the other things that are getting attention, like wearing masks, washing hands, etc. So the first thing is that the population maybe younger. I think the second is that the older population may be a better job at protecting themselves from getting COVID. About 40 to 50% of deaths so far have happened in the nursing home population and we have to be vigilant about really protecting the health of our older citizens. And these trends may be suggestive that we’re starting to do that.

And then the final thing may be that some of the treatments in the hospital may be having an impact. I think too early to say, which of these answers the cause of a lower death rate is. And, I think the big question in the next couple of weeks will be, does the death rate start to go back up? And I think the answer is nobody really knows at this point but we can certainly hope that the death rates will continue to go down in the direction they’ve been going in the last month or two.

Jacob Gordon: I certainly hope so. I’ve seen a couple of things where people are saying that Florida hasn’t been reporting their death rate as accurately as one would hope. And I wonder if that’s contributing to these numbers. I mean, it seems it would be the opposite.

Craig Tanio: But yeah, it’s a great question. I’m certainly not close to that data to have a strong point of view or around that. I think the data can go both ways. COVID can be associated with elective surgeries now, so that when we are reporting hospitalizations with COVID they’re including surgeries where the patients just happens to test positive for a COVID virus or antibody.

Jacob Gordon: What do you mean by that? You’re saying that, so before they go into surgery, they just test to see if they have antibodies. And if they have that, then they’re logged as a COVID patient.

Craig Tanio: Correct. The algorithm and in most reporting statistics do not discriminate whether the COVID was the major cause of admission, or it was just a comorbidity.

Jacob Gordon: Oh, well, yeah, that’s really messed up. That really makes it difficult to really know what’s going on unless they’re separating into two different categories.

Craig Tanio: Well, I think it’s easy to sit back and play Monday morning quarterback to the public health infrastructure. I think what’s been reasonably impressive is how so much of this data can be available to the public at our fingertips on the dashboards. And I think Florida has been trying very hard to make their data very transparent. You can download a revised 600 or 800 page report every day for the department of health. And so there’s always going to be some, some data reporting issues, but I think what’s more important is some of the messages around what’s the real issues with COVID are not always getting heard by the public.

Jacob Gordon: Makes sense. I understand where that’s coming about. What are the issues coming from that? How has the response to COVID really changed the way that we’ve reported all this?

Craig Tanio: I think what COVID has shown is that you can have medicine and you can have science, but how it gets interpreted is something that is a very politicized process. And I also think that how the media tends to focus on things is driven by a media agenda. So, this whole discussion that we’ve just had of the death rates going down I think you would see very few highlights of that or headlines of that. And I think that COVID has been a very good example of a situation in which the medical data is changing rapidly, but a lot of this gets kind of pushed into a specific narrative or two, so I’ll give an example of around masks. The initial recommendations on masks I think we’re really driven by public health authorities thinking about what kind of reaction they wanted the public to have, as opposed to what the data actually said. And because of that, we’ve kind of whipsawed back and forth between nobody should wear masks, everybody should wear masks, some people should wear only high-risk patients should wear masks. And I think the data hasn’t really changed.

Jacob Gordon: Without getting into politics, it really seems that when they say that those kinds of things, it starts to get who you trust. I mean, they’re saying that you should wear and shouldn’t wear masks within a couple of weeks of each other and by high authority figures.

Craig Tanio: That’s correct and it gets it to a messaging issue about how science status should be shared with the public. But I think the facts on masks that are this, I think that masks are really critical to use as a preventive measure for COVID. I look at masks as really being an act of altruism. You’re trying to protect people around you from getting germs that you might have, and while wearing cloth masks is not perfect it is certainly better than nothing. The data that’s emerging on COVID is really arguing that the vast majority of transmission is happening indoors.

Jacob Gordon: Now is that with mass or without mask or it is not reported yet?

Craig Tanio: I think the mask definitely reduces transmission, so a country like Japan has really been able to manage a COVID primarily through the use of masks without having a draconian lockdown. But for example, the use of masks outside there’s no evidence to indicate that if you’re walking by yourself on the beach, that you need a mask to protect yourself from COVID.

Jacob Gordon: It’s crazy, I’ve been seeing, seeing so many old folk and younger folk in Florida running along the beach or biking along the beach with a mask on. And it seems pretty impossible for them to catch something even if they weren’t wearing masks.

Craig Tanio: Yeah and that’s the shame is that I think a lot of the answers involve creating a targeted strategy. Really using the science and the data that we’re getting to be focused on prevention, because I think there’s a reasonable possibility that we don’t get the vaccine anytime soon, and that we have to figure out how to live with the virus for a longer period of time.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah. It seems like people are already turning into already accustomed to this new lifestyle. I mean, I’ve been traveling the US right now and I’m in Arkansas and when I was passing through Alabama, no one was wearing masks, but now that I’m in Arkansas, I see tons of people wearing masks. And it seems that the people here from what I’ve been reading the numbers have been growing here, so people are taking it more seriously.

Craig Tanio: Yeah I think there’s completely a different geographic response to mask-wearing. I think that’s something that we have to look at and we have to really try to get some of the messages out to the public a little bit more consistently on this.

Jacob Gordon: How do you think the healthcare system response was in Florida?

Craig Tanio: Jacob I’ve had a number of years too in working with the healthcare system at different levels. Well we at Rezilir Health right now are taking care of patients. My prior background has really been in working in the health system at the level of the global health systems, so working with countries like the United Kingdom on their health system and state governments in the US as a consultant and partner with McKinsey and company. I’ve also worked from the perspective of the state government, as the chairman of the Maryland health care commission and from the community health perspective in running a number of community health centers in urban Baltimore.

Jacob Gordon: Oh wow well you had a lot of experience on it.

Craig Tanio: I’ve been really thinking about these healthcare issues from the system level for decades. And it’s very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback on this issue because it is really complex and it’s rapidly changing and it’s global in nature. We really haven’t had something like this affect the healthcare system for at least a hundred years. But what I would say is, is that in the first stages, I think Florida should be commended at really getting the nursing home issue right. There was a lot of effort on really trying to prevent COVID from getting into the nursing homes.  And there wasn’t the transfer of patients from the hospitals back into the nursing home with COVID, which I think did an enormous amount of public good in terms of reducing death rates. I think now with the reopening there have definitely been some hits and misses in what’s happened across the state. And I think it gets into this notion of having a targeted strategy and figuring out what the right balance is between some public good issues and public health. So for example many parts of Florida have allowed the bars to reopen and I think that’s in particular, an issue that is fraught with danger. You have a lot of people indoors, you have a lot of you know, the design of bars is very challenging to have social distancing.

Jacob Gordon: No is this at full capacity still or are they at reducing capacity?

Craig Tanio: People say reduced capacity, but I think that what needs to happen is we need to just kind of look at it probably case by case or at a minimum you ask the question, is it, is it better to have the bars open or to have the bars closed?

– Because I think that crowds indoors is definitely a driver.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah, there’s no air exchange there so that’s definitely a problem. I’ve seen a couple of studies where they’re looking at the airflow inside just like AC and how it pushes the air. And some people can be sick with COVID that are right next to the vent and it’s infecting everyone else because the airflow is pushing it there.

Craig Tanio: Yeah, it’s a great question that there may be some real opportunities for improved prevention by looking at air handlers and thinking about antiviral interventions that can be done in the air handler itself. It’s something that I think is definitely where they have more research.

Jacob Gordon: Well, what has the health care system done well and what have they been doing improperly? I know we’ve talked about how well the nursing facilities have done but what has gone well and what has gone wrong?

Craig Tanio: I think the major question now on the table is what can each County do to increase their prevention efforts and do we have to go back into a complete lockdown? I think that’s the debate that you’re going to hear across the country, as some of the cases go back up. And I think that we need to really think carefully about how we can live with COVID, for let’s say the next 12 months, 18 months, because there could be very much of a pessimistic scenario in which the vaccine isn’t developed. And I think that nobody would argue that you can lock down the country for that period of time.

And so I think what we need to really figure out is what’s going to be the right strategy to reopen the economy and how to prevent the virus and get that right balance. So I think that the move to reopening safe, but not essential businesses was really important. But I think that we need to look at masks for example, and I’m certainly in favor of a number of the moves of different counties in Florida at making masks more mandatory…certainly mandatory indoors. But I think that the whole question of wearing outdoor masks, there can be some opportunities for discretion.

Jacob Gordon: Absolutely I mean, the more that we see people wearing masks, some people say it gives you a false sense of security, but I actually think it’s going to help bring down the numbers. I mean, if a vaccine comes or it never comes, it’s still quite a long ways away and doing your part to prevent the spread or getting it, getting COVID it’s paramount.

Craig Tanio: The other piece around prevention is something that’s been talked about, I think very little from a public health standpoint, which is what can individuals do to keep their health as optimum as possible and to keep their immune system as optimum as possible. And I think this is this kind of shows some of the challenges that we have in the conventional medicine and the conventional public health world of talking about preventive strategies. And so I’ll give the example of vitamin D. So vitamin D is a nutrient that’s really an essential vitamin. There is a randomized placebo-controlled studies around vitamin D to show that it reduces the incidents of viral and respiratory infections. There is no data on Vitamin D and COVID as of yet in a clinical trial, but there is data to show that patients who are dying from COVID have lower vitamin D.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah I’ve seen the crazy low numbers. I mean, around at least what was it, 30 Nanograms or below for most of these patients that are dying.

Craig Tanio: And so what happens then from an individual patient’s perspective is, does it make sense to supplement with vitamin D as a general prevention strategy with that data in mind? And that’s something we certainly discussed with our patients at Rezilir Health. It’s a very sort of individual patient perspective. But I think you’ve seen very little action from the public health perspective around even talking about those types of measures. And I think in fact, I think you’ve seen the opposite. You’ve seen when anything is discussed around prevention there’s oftentimes been a crackdown that there’s not sufficient data, and there isn’t sufficient data around prevention from COVID, but there’s an open question about why wouldn’t somebody just check their vitamin D levels and try to optimize it.

Jacob Gordon: Well I have seen that for vitamin D and you’ll see people who are sick with COVID and they just start supplementing with vitamin D and you’ll get those reports back into the media of how it’s not affecting them. And that’s true because vitamin D it takes a while to build up into your system and using it as a prophylactic. It’s necessary to take it months in advance if you’re not getting sunlight on your skin and that’s where the media is messing up.

Craig Tanio: I think the basic message that the public needs to hear is that if you’re concerned about your risk of COVID, you can’t change your age, but you can change how healthy you are. And so I do think that, for example if somebody is a pre-diabetic and they’re able to lose 10 or 15 pounds over a three month period, do we think that their risk with COVID has moved in a better direction? I think the answer is very likely.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah, absolutely.

Craig Tanio: And there’s no downside in becoming more.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah that’s true. I mean, people could see this as a chance to just becoming healthier. Optimizing their nutrient levels, whether it’s vitamin D or whether it’s some other touted biomarker that is being reported. I mean, it’s not bad to be at optimum levels.

Craig Tanio: Well, I saw a very interesting report; haven’t seen the study yet, but it came out of Norway looking at gyms and the effect of reopening the gyms. And they actually did do it in a bit of a randomized manner and then they were finding, they were finding that people who were in the gym who were social distancing, but otherwise working out indoors did not seem to increase the risk of getting COVID. Yeah, a little bit of a preliminary study, but something that’s worth exploring a little bit more. Because I think it’s pretty ironic how the gyms have been one of the last things to open. And in many places, we’ve seen the gym stay closed but the bar is still

Jacob Gordon: Is that, I mean, this is all speculation. Is that just because people are going to gyms are basically probably healthier.

Craig Tanio: Or it may be that maybe during exercise itself there could be something that’s a bit more protective. Hard to know.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah it is hard to know. I mean, without getting into the science of things, I wonder if there’s, I exercise turns on so many genes, but I wonder if there’s a gene or something that turns on and turns off and helps with viral load or something or spread. But back to America, I mean, I wish America could implement something like that kind of study that Norway is doing. So what can we do here, like, what are the kinds of things that the healthcare system is missing to readily prepare Americans for being like taking a prophylactic approach to things? Vitamin D was one thing and I feel like there’s so many other ways that the healthcare system could be expressing itself or healthcare system could be like telling people to go exercise more instead of staying indoors all the time. I mean, people just get sick from staying indoors all the time, whether, I mean, you and I have experienced moldy buildings and sick building syndrome, but people just get sick from being inside.

Craig Tanio: Yeah I think the message that the outdoor activities are safe is I think a really important public health message to have. I think that we’ve seen that when you look at outdoor gatherings, whether it’s in an Ozark pool or it’s a crowd of people outside…

Jacob Gordon: You mentioned Ozark pool because that’s, I’m in Arkansas, I’m in Ozarks right now. Tell me a little bit more about that so I know what to stay away from.

Craig Tanio: Well, there was, I think that it might’ve been like three weekends ago a fair amount that was happening in the media in terms of focus around a number of people that had gotten together in a public pool. And there was a fair amount of scolding around that this was going to be a super spreader event. Oh, I see and my understanding is that follow-up on that is not showing that pool to really be a super spreader event. And instead, when people are looking at the super spreader events, I think 97% of the events that are spreading COVID are happening indoors. And so what a super spreader event is where a handful of people who have COVID are ending up infecting multiple people. So what you really have is a situation where 20% of the cases are driving 80% of the transmissions. And the initial research is suggesting that the vast majority of these events, like 95, 97% of these events are happening indoors. And so that’s what we need to really manage. We need to be super careful about large public gatherings.

Jacob Gordon: When you say indoors are you talking about like large gatherings, like you’re saying, like, are you talking about office buildings or do you mean like hotels, what kind of, where are people going to get exposed to this? It seems like everyone’s kind of keeping their distance unless it’s like, I don’t know of any events going on right now.

Craig Tanio: Well, it can’t be that if there are gatherings at a specific social gathering where there wasn’t social distancing

Jacob Gordon: The only case I can think of indoors is a few weeks back, I forget where it was. There was a church choir and they’re all indoors and they all got it.

Craig Tanio: Yeah I think when; there’s a couple of global databases that are looking at these super spreader events and they range from being in a poultry processing plant, at a funeral, a family dinner a gathering of people, some department stores and so all of them have kind of been a four-hour event. Some of these were in the early stages when social distancing wasn’t being practiced as much.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah I was going to ask, is this still applied with the six-foot rule?

Craig Tanio: I think if we’re able to keep the six-foot rule and we’re able to keep masks on, then I think we’ve really diminished the risks of this happening

Jacob Gordon: So it is the combination of the two, if you’re indoors. I mean, so if you’re outside, it seems to be okay. Six feet outdoors is probably a good idea, but I mean, you’re not going to have someone give it to you if you’re just passing by really quickly. I mean, don’t go kissing someone outside.

Craig Tanio: I agree that the risks outdoors is not going to be high.

Jacob Gordon: So COVID really, it seems like COVID really revealed a lot about the healthcare system now, and really has put a split between conventional and integrative medicine. I mean, with conventional, you have like drugs being pushed and you’ll see clinical trials from hydroxychloroquine to Remdesivir and then on the complete opposite spectrum, you’ll see like trials of or just reports of like elderberry or hydrogen inhalation or just, it seems that there’s such a large gap between the two.

Why has.. I want to know why there’s been such a schism around this whole separation between the two, especially what COVID has revealed between these healthcare systems?

Craig Tanio: I think it’s a great question Jacob and not an easy question to answer. I’ll give it in a couple parts and certainly not easy. I think the first is, is should there be a difference between conventional medicine and integrative and functional medicine? And my answer is no.  There shouldn’t be a difference. There really should be only one medicine in a medicine that’s really based on scientific principles and then medicine that’s really customized to the individual patient based on their values and prevention. Not the values and prevention, values and preferences, but the way that healthcare functions is really different from those type of principles in the US, healthcare has tended to be very hospital and facility centric, very procedure-oriented. And I think you see that in COVID. You see that a lot of the focus has been around what patients are, can be done, what can be done for patients in the hospital. And in particular, what is the pharmaceutical pipeline and the pharmaceutical pipeline absolutely has to happen for COVID and the way out is going to be a vaccine. However, I think in many non-US Health systems, there’s been an equal emphasis around prevention, and I think been really lacking in this country. The real question on the table is do you have to wait for randomized clinical trials to advocate for some good prevention strategies?

And my answer is no. We want to help as a citizen and as a potential patient for a practice. We want to help our patients maximize their health and to optimize their immune system. And so this whole issue about the immune system, I think is one in which the integrative approach to care, sees this as a question that’s worthy of exploration and further research because there, there has been some pretty interesting data to show that your immune system can be strengthened with certain interventions around lifestyle, or we talked about the vitamin D.

Jacob Gordon: I feel like so many people are afraid of strengthening their immune system because they’ve read so many things about having too strong of an immune system for a cytokine storm. So it’s kind of like putting the brakes on the prevention aspect.

Craig Tanio: Yeah, it’s a great question around what in particular is driving the cytokine storm. My hypothesis is that there are very likely some genomic predispositions to this that are happening. But it certainly doesn’t take away from the message that there’s a lot that most people can do to improve their health and that should be a real focus of the system sort of equally as important as what’s happening in the hospital.

Jacob Gordon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I wonder how many people are becoming healthy just because of this whole pandemic. I mean, who have had probably maybe pre-diabetes or some other kind of metabolic disorder that they’ve actually taken a proactive approach just because they didn’t want to get COVID or get, if they did get sick with COVID, they want to be prepared for it. So for some, hopefully it’s a blessing.

Craig Tanio: Yeah, well, hopefully what we could do is try to translate some of this anxiety that’s out there from COVID. I certainly see it in my patients where I’m more frequently prescribing a reduction in exposure to cable news as a way to reduce people’s anxiety and instead transfer some of that energy into just staying healthy and I think all of the basic pieces of health which is getting..

Jacob Gordon: So for listeners what are some things that they can do? We talked earlier about vitamin D, we talked about exercise, we talked about eating a little bit better, and if you have diabetes working on that. What are some other things? I don’t need to get into supplements or like genetics of anything but things that the general population should be doing?

Craig Tanio: I think some of the pillars of health, so having a clean diet, getting enough sleep. Sleep is absolutely associated with having a strong immune system and having a lack of sleep.

Jacob Gordon: Speaking of sleep, I’ve been using this aura ring to track my sleep, and it’s been amazing. I’ve been able to see when I’m getting deep sleep and when I’m getting REM sleep and it’s allowed me to actually try to improve on those aspects of my sleep

Craig Tanio: The aura rings are great. I think that the NBA is going to be using the aura rings and all the players to get any kind of early signs that they might be getting sick. It’s a nice little device to really have to check a number of things

Jacob Gordon: Yeah, your heart rate variability goes down when you start, or sometimes it can go down before you get sick.

Craig Tanio: That’s correct and so sleep is critical. Healthy food is important. I think we’re going to find over time that air quality is critical. You and I have discussed this outside of the podcast several times about how important really indoor air quality is. And so clean food, great sleep, exercise, and then I think just trying to have relaxation and lowering of stress, I think all of those play an important role on the immune system.

Jacob Gordon: Absolutely, I think during this time, most people for stress at least would go out and be social. So many people would go out and drink together or they’d have family gatherings or whatever it is.

Craig Tanio: And work is another important piece. There’s really good data showing that increases in the unemployment rate absolutely are associated with increase in mortality rate. And so getting people back to work in a safe way, I think is an appropriate public health strategy. And so we shouldn’t be sort of caught in this narrative of having a false trade-off between employment and managing the virus. What we have to figure out is how to do both together.

Jacob Gordon: Absolutely, we need all that balance together. And I am looking forward to a positive future where all that’s going to happen for a majority of America. Hopefully this pandemic can help train people, or people have had the ability to create good habits to lead a healthier life.

Craig Tanio: One of the things that we’re going to have to do is keep track of what’s evolving because I think one of the things that we’re seeing with COVID is that the data keeps changing. What it looks like now is not nearly what was case sort of 60 days ago and sort of in my lifetime, I’ve never seen a health issue where things have changed so rapidly.

Jacob Gordon: I want to end this podcast on. You’ve been so good at tracking the research and details. And if someone is like-minded and similar in wanting to find those details, what can they do to find that data correctly and really understand the data?

Craig Tanio: Well, I think that there are a couple of things.

Jacob Gordon: Without getting stressed out from the news and the media, I mean, it’s just crazy. You can type in any number on Google and then type cases behind it, and it will give you some kind of news story. So what is a way to do it without getting all that involved?

Craig Tanio: Yeah well, we certainly track the Florida department of health dashboard on a daily basis. We’re looking at the worldometer data that you can see across the globe. Hopkins also has an excellent sort of dashboard. There have been a couple of really good aggregator sites in terms of tracking research. So there’s a very good database, a vaccine database, that is now available, where you can keep track of all of the different clinical trials. And then I think what there’s and then there are a couple of people who have been, you know, I think quite good at starting to develop some potential strategies on how we can be more targeted around a setup of health policies and economic policies that will address this issue.

Jacob Gordon: Great, all right, with that in mind, I thank you so much, Craig, for coming on the show today, this is a fantastic chat that we had and a lot of useful information.

Craig Tanio: All right, thanks for having me, Jacob.

Jacob Gordon: What a fantastic first episode, wouldn’t you say? If you want to find out more information about Rezilir Health, and things like COVID neurodegeneration, Alzheimer’s, mold toxicity, and more, head over to the and on, you download Dr. Craig Tanio’s newest eBook, which covers all aspects of cognitive decline and best yet it’s free. Anyway, stay tuned next week for another episode. Thanks guys, and stay beautiful.

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